[Armin]

Hello again,

So recently, I have been thinking more about this question of whether low back rotation while in a seated position is shao yin or shao yang. I think I would have to agree with you guys that it’s actually shao yin movement given that the body is retracted (shao yin) when the the rotation is happening. The shao yang movements are while the body or limbs are in an extension position.

I actually tried it while seated and you definitely use your adductors (leg shao yin) when rotating. When standing and rotating, I could feel the leg shao yang muscles engaging more.

I hope I haven’t confused things for others who had it right all along 😉

Armin

[Armin]

Hi Paul,

This was a good one because it made me think too, and eventually I went through my notes after the last post. What I have down is that medial rotation, or crossing the midline of a bent limbs (upper or lower) would relate to a Shao yin movement. While, lateral rotation of the limbs as well torso would be Shao yang.

Hope this helps.
Armin

[Armin]

Hi Antoine,

I’m not sure about better results but my understanding has always been that if you are seated and turn your torso from side to side, in other words when you twist your torso while sitting (or standing for that matter), this is a shao yang movement. Leg shao yin only happens as you described it, a bend limb crossing the midline and medially twisting.

Again, that’s my understanding. If others have gotten results with leg shao yin from seated rotation, then it goes to show you that if the intention is there, you can still get to it.

Armin

[Armin]

Hi Paul,

Further to Antoine’s input, if you were to do a sinew treatment, then you would go through the assessment steps: 1) location of pain, 2) movement causing pain, and 3) pulse assessment.

Location of pain is the spine, so you would work the leg shao yin sinew channel.
Movement is the seated rotation, so you would work the leg shao yang sinew channel (any twisting or lateral turning of torso).
If there is any pulse that is tight and in the 1-6 bean position, then you work the sinew channel associated with that pulse position as well. If no such pulse, then you simply do the first two steps from interior to exterior.

For good measure, you could do a bit of leg Tai yang which is right next to the spine. So, first leg shao yin, then leg shao yang and then a bit of leg tai yang work close to the area of pain at the spine.

Given that the leg shao yin has the main portion in the front, you would start with the patient in supine, then turn them to the side and work the spine. This transitions to the leg shao yang while they are in lateral recumbent. And then face down for some Taiyang work.

Armin

[Armin]

A bit of an afterthought; you would want to make sure that the amount of the essential oil being applied is very very small, so just a hint of it. You may already have this covered but just in case. I think the combination of the moxa, EO and the 3rd trajectory might be pushing the yang too far out and possibly leaving the exterior open.

Just a thought!

[Armin]

Hi Kyle,

Thanks for sharing the details of your case.

This does sound like a case for 8ev’s. I see that you are boosting the constitutional yang with good success. I’m not 100% sure as to why the frequent colds. I know Jing is cold in nature and working with 8ev’s can make the body cold for a bit after sessions as jing is tapped into. So it’s important for your patient to take care after treatments with respect to EPF. This is more for the parents, of course. Also, making sure there’s not much sugar and goodies in the picture especially while you do the deeper level work.

The only other thing I can think of would be possibly that the Moxa nightly on Sp 4 might be much on top of the essential oil application. Perhaps one or the other. I think I recall reading somewhere that Moxa for young children might not be suitable, although in this case, it may be appropriate due to the constitutional challenges.

Hopefully others will have more insights.

Armin

[Armin]

Hi all,

I recall Ann saying in the live chat on couple of occasions that it is fine to use 8ev’s on children at any age if and when it’s called for such as a disability or emotional trauma or any other serious illness of the first cycle of Jing. You could use essential oils on the first and last point of the trajectory of the channel and visualize the whole channel being lit up so to speak. If you go for essential oils, the protocol would be everyday for 90 days.

I used Chong Mai on a 3 year old who had severe acid reflux, vomiting of all stomach content several times daily with pretty good results. I only did a few sessions once a week combined with dietary recommendations, of course. In this case, I did a combination of simply holding the points energetically and some visualization.

Kyle, do you mean that the child catches colds after your 8ev sessions? Can you give us more details as to what you mean, your case and what you have done so far.

Armin

[Armin]

Hi Pamela,

I have never done a divergent zonal treatment, but my understanding based on my notes is that the best time for this approach is when you have more of an acute situation or perhaps an acute flare up of a chronic condition. I can see how that works with the musculoskeletal conditions when let’s say a chronic low back bladder zone pain jumps to small intestine zonal pair. But I would not know how it works with skin condition that’s all over and chronic.

I definitely agree that this is more of chronic situation which would require a DSD approach. I would say your liver divergent is pretty right on. I would also recommend adding the GB, its yang pair to help with moving out the pathogen while building the mediumship. And, also because in Ann’s book, skin conditions are listed for Gb divergent.

In general, chronic skin conditions have a very Shao yang feel to them, though, of course, this can be said about many chronic conditions. This is especially so when areas such as armpits, and groins are involved. In this case, there is wrists, inside of legs and arms too, so in a way shao yang/jue yin situation so another reason to consider the Liv/Gb divergent. It would be good to use the Gb44 to allow a bit of an exit point for the pathogen.

Another strategy you may consider is a shao yang sinew treatment. Ann talked about this once and I had a chance to use it on a client with a very chronic, annoying eczema on palms/soles. Treatments were helping but not as much as I would have liked. I did one session of this sinew treatment with all the prep work (she was very deficient) and only arm and leg shao yang on right/left respectively and then everything started to shift for the better. Now she maintains it with a proper diet.

Hope this helps.
Armin

[Armin]

hi Rene,

A few of the basic things that come to mind as potential reasons that things didn’t work out favourably:

1) Was he hydrated before the start of the sinew treatment?
2) The fact that he’s a diabetic and on medication would tell me that he’s most likely deficient in mediumship. So, frankly I would have simply done the sinew treatment prep work regardless, that is tonifying the St fluids, lV blood and kd yang. It would have hurt and most likely would have helped.
3) To me, this would be more of a case of deficiency, so I would make sure that the needle at Jing well would be pointing upwards and the sinew treatment would be up the channel and the flaccid points would be done medially making sure to close the point with your finger right after and the tight points laterally to reduce.

Let’s assume you did all these and no result, then for sure mediumship is not there and yes to divergent approach.
I’m not sure about the Luo to be honest, but ya if you see lots of visible luo’s, I’m sure it would help.

Sorry for the late reply. For some reason, I didn’t even get your question to my email!!! And I guess others haven’t either. A glitch in the system 🙂

Let us know how it goes.

[Armin]

Hola Anna!

Hope you are well. I think you are already doing great and clearly she’s getting better. But as you say her anger towards her father is still very raw and strong, so that might be one possible connection. Perhaps she is holding that anger in her lower back or the the anger is depleting her Kidneys given that she feels all drained after seeing her father.

Seems to me some luo treatments might be in order to release this anger towards her father, but of course, she would want to let go of it too, in the first place. Some forgiveness on her part might be needed for her to get over this obstacle.

Armin

[Armin]

Hi Antoine,

The reason I ended up using the Yang Wei Mai was combination of her mental/emotional state at the time of the session as well as the trajectory of the channel, which would cover the Gallbladder channel, ankles, side of neck and hip; all the areas she was having issues. I think the Yang Qiao or even yin Qiao would have been good as well but she express that she had some worries and fears of the future about her own condition as well as that of her other family members who are afflicted by the same condition and are worse off and wheelchair bound. Given the emotional state, I picked yang Wei mai.

Yes, the Chong mai also crossed my mind for the same reason that you mentioned. I guess those are options for the future and based on pulse and the rest.

Armin

[Armin]

Hi Antoine,

Thanks for your input. The client came back today for session three. I should say that she did originally come primarily for the ankle stability and strengthening. The scar tissue connection came from me. Anyway, I had actually tried yang Wei mai last session but wrote yang Qiao, though I’m sure both are applicable. I did the treatment based on gender and not worse side of discomfort, so the needles went on her right side. She said she felt much more stable in the right ankle all week and had actually gone away for hikes and felt pretty good about things all around. She had previously gone to Chiropractic and physiotherapy for many sessions but no results. The power of 8ev’s!!!

She did say that she felt her stronger side, left, was feeling like it needs attention. So today, I switched to needling on left, cupped Gb 29 and SI 10 on right.

We’ll see how it goes, but yes the scar tissue is pretty extensive and will likely require surgery, but I’ll see what comes up in future session.

Cheers.

[Armin]

Thanks again Monica. Nicely put and it all makes sense. The unique thing about this case is that all her treatment expenses are paid by her insurance company so in a way she is not as invested in the treatments and the result. She’s coming in for “pain relief” until surgery day, which is now finally set for mid-September, though she has to travel to India for it. The best surgeon for this highly specialized procedure is there.

Of course, that doesn’t change the picture for me; I will still try to do thing session by session until then.

Cheers:)

[Armin]

Hi Monica,

Thanks so much for your input and insights; very helpful.

She is definitely in the category of resisting the change rather than accepting it, and I can see it very clearly that she is suffering for it. But, it is really her choice. She does pay lip service to the idea that the accident happened for a reason but I know for fact and she knows it as well that the moment she will feel a bit better after surgery, she’s going to go back to her old ways. Well, I should not say for sure; there is still hope that something might click and she will see things a bit more clearly, perhaps after I have cleared the connection between head and the body through the window to heaven points, as you have suggested.

Since my last post, not much has changed with her condition, well things are a bit worse. I will keep you posted.

Cheers

[Armin]

I am not surprised that UTI’s would have started after the antibiotic treatments for gut health. I guess that approach can help with a few cases but most of the people I come across who have gone through with it for SIBO or what have you, end up feeling worse after, perhaps a bit better for a short time right after but then worse than before.

Recurring UTI’s would be divergent territory, but I think sinew treatments would address it too as, if I’m not mistaken, Wei qi goes to the bladder organ too, along with the gut. I would think one of the leg yin channels, Spleen or Kidney!?

But you are doing well with following the pulses. As long as she’s improving, you are on the right track 😉

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