Sinews movement diagnosis

[Antoine Mulpas]

Hello everyone,

I have several patients who mention pain in specific position, or movement when they are in a sitting or lying position and I’m often confused about which sinew is involved. I often hear about pain when turning in bed, or pain when they sit with the legs extended (no movement). For the former I would say it is Shaoyin, being in a Yin state (lying) and do a rotation. For the later I would say it is Jueyin (no movement).
Anyone has any insights about these specific situations ?

Thank you!
Cheers,
Antoine

[Armin]

Hi Antoine,

These are my thoughts and by no means are they necessarily right, just how I see it. Hopefully others will comment as well.

Shaoyin is only when you turn a limb medially towards the midline of the body. So, pouring tea from a pot or putting a leg over the other leg’s knee top in a seated position. If your whole body is turning at night on bed, I don’t think that is a Shao Yin situation. A lot of things are moving when that happens and I think we need to narrow it down to the specifics of the body part that is hurting when they are turning in bed at night.

When it comes to sitting, even though it feels like you are not moving, the muscles of the back are still holding you upright. This is considered an extension which would be tai yang (especially the bladder channel). Jue yin, is when the pain is present all the time, whether the person is sitting or standing or walking. Or, the pain is all over or there is numbness.

Just to confuse you even more, I read in one the posts that sitting also involves a tai yin situation, possibly because the knees are flexed and coming towards the chest. Something to think about.

With the night time confusion, once you figure out what part of the body is hurting, just get the client to mobilize that part for you in the clinic in different ways and then assess which is the worst, but not in the lying down position. So, if they say their shoulder hurts at night when they turn in bed, then see how the arm movements are in the seated position: if extension, or rotation medially or latter hurts. That should give you some clues about the shoulder too.

Hope this helps 😉

[Elizabeth Evans]

I could be adding confusion… but… maybe asking specifically what they mean when turning in bed. Because you can turn in bed and have pain the shoulder because it is now bearing weight (yang ming??). But if it is turning pain such as pubic symphasis pain, that pain is typically because a leg is crossing toward the midline. It actually hurts when one knee crosses over the other- even just slightly. If you keep your knees together and turn, it doesn’t hurt. So I would think more information might help.

From my experience, patients will say it hurts when sitting but when you say, “so it hurts now?”, they typically will realise it’s actually on getting up or trying to sit down. And even if it does hurt now, it hurts more on getting up or sitting down. But that might not be your experience.

But I also totally understand the confusion. I’m trying to figure it out myself. 🙂

[Antoine Mulpas]

Hello Armin and Elizabeth,

Thank you for your answers, it is reassuring to read I’m not the only one having hard times sometimes figuring sinew diagnostic !
I’ll do more the movement assessment regarding the pain at night from now one, and see what results are found.

“When it comes to sitting, even though it feels like you are not moving, the muscles of the back are still holding you upright. This is considered an extension which would be tai yang (especially the bladder channel).”
I wonder if we can see also this as Yangming, because you have to support your weight ? I read in “Heart Shock”by Ross Rosen that people with deficiency in the KI/BL Sinew will tend to hunch forwards, which tends to support the idea of Taiyang as you said.

But if it is turning pain such as pubic symphasis pain, that pain is typically because a leg is crossing toward the midline. It actually hurts when one knee crosses over the other- even just slightly. If you keep your knees together and turn, it doesn’t hurt. So I would think more information might help.
Would you say it is a Shaoyin sinew in this case Elizabeth ?

Have a nice day!
Antoine

[Elizabeth Evans]

I just wanted to correct some misinformation I put up previously. I put up a reference to yang ming if bearing weight on shoulder. I’ve just watched Ann’s video on sinew diagnosis and what I said is wrong. If you have shoulder pain when lying down, that is not ‘bearing weight’ so not yang ming. Sorry for any confusion!

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